Because of my present state of health, I am not inclined to talk much. Dealing only with this topic, only a rare person will understand what I am driving at.
When someone asks me some gross questions, do you expect me to come down to that level and explain all details as if in a kindergarten class? I have some very strange questions! Before my birth, at my conception, who pulled me into the womb? My father? My mother? And in what form? That would be a possibilityprovided I had a certain form, color or design prior to conception; then only could I have been pulled inside.
The one who has solved this riddle comes to the conclusion that this beingness and this entire manifest world is unreal. There is no need for knowledge when this beingness was not. When even great gods like Brahma and Vishnu were confronted with this puzzle, they closed their eyes and went into samadhi and just disappeared.
V: They did nothing?
M: What could they do? At present you feel “you are” because of the association with the vital breath; because the
vital breath is operating, you know “you are.” When the association is not there, what can you do? Can you actually do anything?
V: What can I do to acquire knowledge?
M: Do nothing except hold on to yourself, just be in that beingness, then it will tell you how beingness turns into “nonbeingness.” Therefore, I tell you just one thing: Catch hold of that touch of “I-am-ness” only, that beingness, dwell on it, and contemplate on that only.
V: The best thing to do is to be there in that “I am” state? To be is meditation?
M: There is no “be there,” just be.
V: Is it possible the whole day? Any special meditation?
M: Who says for the whole day? Who else can say for the whole day except the beingness? It can capture everything in this contemplation, but it cannot capture itself.
V: Is karma a problem which we create?
M: The one which has created you has created this karma and the problems of karma, so that you involve yourself in it. Who has created you? What do you mean by karma? It is movement, activity.
V: As long as one is subject to karma, one encounters it and it appears as something real. But is it not actually an illusion?
M: I try to keep you trapped as though you were in the womb. If you listen to me carefully and quietly, everything
will be sprouting. It is a common mistake, a blunder, that we have become identified with the body form.
V: The last mistake?
M: The first and the last. Again remember the words which I have spoken earlier. The seed which has created this body and everything else, so long as it is alive, moist, you will explain these words. Once that seed is gone, you are in eternity only, in your eternal state.
Out of a very small seed a very big tree grows into the sky. Similarly this small seed, this beingness—“I-am-ness”
touch—out of that seed all this manifest world is created. At this point there is no energy left in the words; therefore, you cannot further express it verbally.
V: My ego, my body, the other bodies of the egos here in this room, what they are hearing are all concepts, movements in this beingness. Is this correct?
M: Yes, if you want to understand more clearly, take theexample of a dream, your dream.
Since I am touching on the highest aspects of knowledge, I am not in a position to reply to any gross questions. If somebody talks, or asks questions, I am not going to challenge him, because to him, from his standpoint and from his level, those are correct questions.
Right now, if I have to be interested in a state at all, it is that state eight days prior to conception, the Parabrahman state.Yesterday the word “ego” was used, as also today. On what level is this “ego” attached, and when?
Everything is most sacred and most unsacred. The question of sacred and unsacred is there so long as that beingness is there. If the beingness is not, where is the question of sacredness or non-sacredness?
You meet some persons and call them very knowledgeable.
They will tell you that in the next birth you will be a great king and in the birth after that a still greater king.
When such advice is given, the listener is very happy, very contented. Self-love is the underlying illusion, but nobody wants to admit that. Nobody wants to give up his beingness, his “I am” knowledge.
Suppose the following question is directed to an intelligent person: “Prior to conception, how were you?” This person would reply as follows: “I was in a dormant condition in the essences of my parents.” That would be how a smart person would reply.
It is, however, based on the conventional outlook and if you trace it further to the parents’ parents, etc., you will have an infinite regression on your hands.
Therefore, this principle, which has no form but is only the knowledge in a dormant condition, if you trace it to its source it goes back to eternity. That is why the principle is eternal.
Now I will give you two clues for further investigation. One is to establish yourself in that state prior to conception, and the other is that you wrap yourself up in the traditional concept of the parents. In the latter case, you will fail to get a good grip on the true nature of yourself.
The conventional knowledge is not destroyed but there is no need for it, because basically it is unreal, it is untruth.
Whatever an ignorant child or an accomplished sage says, both are correct.
Говорит ли ничего не ведующий ребенок или совешенный мудрец - оба правы.
I can give you another concept: “Who is the perfect principle or the personality that existed prior to the birth of anybody?”
Here again is a similarity between a child in the cradle and a perfect jnani. When the child tastes food, he does not
know whether it is urine or fecal material, food or milk, all these things having the same taste for him.
How does the child know himself in that state? Only he knows. Now what do you want to say about the child and the jnani?
V: I believe it is important to become a child, to drop all the attachments.
M: Where is the question of giving up, renouncing everything? It has come about spontaneously, you do not have to
throw out anything. You have to understand only. You are compelled to suffer or experience only because of the appearance of the beingness.
Did you go and catch hold of the beingness? It has come about spontaneously. Is the child catching hold of something, has he caught any concepts, ideas or an ego?
A jnani having understood this state of beingness and all its play, has transcended it and abides in the state prior to conception. He dwells ever in that perfect state, whether the beingness appears or disappears.
During your life you have accomplished so many things, you had so many identities and all these identities and that
understanding have left you. Finally, with what identity will you die?
If you have understood what “you” really are, is there any necessity for spiritual pursuits?
V: In reality, no. I ask myself why I am here, what is the reason?
I know only too well there is ignorance in me. I think the reason I came here is to get help to destroy that ignorance.
M: Your ignorance is gone. Now, describe, what do you mean by ignorance?
V: I do not perceive it clearly enough, although I see many things. Sometimes I have problems; I think it is because of my ignorance.
M: The waking state, sleep, beingness, all this experience combined, is ignorance only. That ignorance termed as “birth” means these three. Once you know this, you can do anything, you are free.
When you know the false as false, then you do not have to worship at all. Any idea of doership—that things happen because you do something—also goes away. Prior to the appearance of this beingness, you were purely Parabrahman, the Absolute.
The jnani does not give importance to this waking, sleeping and beingness. Just as you are not afraid of a serpent
made out of rubber, so in a similar way the jnani has no interest in this waking state and beingness.
V: Is it all the same?
M: Will you make use of this knowledge? To see and affirm it as false, need you make any effort?
V: You can see anything without effort.
M: Once you know the ignorance, then there is no effort, because you have dismissed it as ignorance and there is no registration of it for future reference.
What are you suffering or experiencing? The name of this body form and its associations and that beingness. If you
ponder over it, you will have the instant solution.
V: You have talked about the state of conception. Also that we are in the eternal Parabrahman state;
but what is karma, is it a variant of that eternal state?
M: There is no karma in the state of Parabrahman. Where is the question of karma?
V: But you were talking about conception, body-mind.
M: Who has entered the body-mind form?
V: I...? We...?
M: Now the space has entered in this room, the space is there. Why and how has the space entered this room?
V: At first there was no space...no time?
M: The space is outside, the space is here also; there is no distinction between outside and inside space, it is all space only! So where is the question of coming and going?